[轉貼]为什么每次换水后水草的光合作用就变的旺盛？

果汁先生 · **發表於 :** 2005-01-12 13:34

alder 寫:

果汁先生寫:

alder 寫:

It is only hypothesis until you get supporting data. such as chemical formula, the mechanism..............

Any counter data please !

You are funny. I believe that only the one who purpose the hypothesis is responsible to prove and provide supporting data.

You are as funny as me.

If someone tells you a matter of fact, and it turns out that you do not agree with it. So in the first instant there is something in your mind to support your saying. Right?

I want that(something) in your mind. Thanks.

Jackyim · **註冊時間:** 2003-09-25 14:11 **文章:** 193

呢個係一個理論而已, 我都係第一次聽到, 首先唔洗講信定唔信, 因為咁樣係冇意義的, 用毒素去影響周圍的其他生物及同類在細菌係好常見, 依家我地用的抗生素就係用呢個原理去做出黎, 但係大家好似有一個問題沒有問, 在魚缸裡是一個 close system所以毒素可以越黎越多, 但係你好似當左d水草天生就好似只會在魚缸裡咁, 水草原本係生活在一條河, 水流不斷, 毒素又點停留呢? 第二個問題 : 我地講毒, 其實唔係講一樣野佢係有毒定冇毒, 而係呢一樣野, 在幾多的濃度會做成d乜野影響, 就算呢樣野真係有, 本人好相信, 在一個 30 吋魚缸裡, 可能要幾年先有人兄說的"毒" 到了一個能有 effect 的程度, 到左果時, no3, po4 都以經把所有魚同草殺左啦.....

對於換水的 effect, sera以經出左書講過換水可以直接加快光合作用架啦, 原因佢係咁講 : 1) 自來水裡經過水管及水箱後, 有一d微量原素容於其中 ; 2) 自來水在儲水箱儲存時, 細菌的分配作用生產出co2, 令到自來水的 co2容量提高 3) 因為換水時水壓因魚缸水位下跌而令到葉裡面的 oxygen 比正常水位時快d飽和而放出 o2, 情況就好似你剪草後一樣 o

Kelvin6666 · **發表於 :** 2005-01-12 14:41

這種物競天爭的方法, 不是每種植物都會用, 各所釋放的化學物質也不一定每一種植物都會受到影響。
記得看過書本有講過水草競爭的現象, 不記得是最完美水草水族箱一書 or 觀賞魚大百科其中一期。目前書本不齊全, 只可盡量找找。

alder · **發表於 :** 2005-01-12 16:40

果汁先生寫:

alder 寫:

果汁先生寫:

alder 寫:

It is only hypothesis until you get supporting data. such as chemical formula, the mechanism..............

Any counter data please !

You are funny. I believe that only the one who purpose the hypothesis is responsible to prove and provide supporting data.

You are as funny as me.

If someone tells you a matter of fact, and it turns out that you do not agree with it. So in the first instant there is something in your mind to support your saying. Right?

I want that(something) in your mind. Thanks.

If the polices said that I have killed someone. Then the police need to porvide supporting to pove what they said before I need to do anything to prove myself. hopefully, it is still common practices in Hong Kong.

If the government said that cigarettes are harm to health, the government needs to provide supporting before the cigarettes makers/sellers to do anything to defense.

It is also true in academic and science, the one who raise the hypothesis needs to provide supporting to convinces other to accept the hypothesis, but not the publics.

alder · **發表於 :** 2005-01-12 16:48

Andy Kong 寫:

alder 寫:

大猩猩王~ 寫:

果汁先生寫:

alder 寫:

It is only hypothesis until you get supporting data. such as chemical formula, the mechanism..............

Any counter data please !

生物科好似係靠觀察結果去作出結論的..

..

但..毒素哩家o野..唔係話check就check架啵..

At least, you need to set up two or more similar aquarium tanks in controlled environment for comparisons, some tanks for variables and some or aleast one as a control.

What is the control variables?

If we keep everything the same, one tank with regular water changes, one without, then you can obtain data regarding the implication of changing water. However, this doesn't seem to be the hypothesis.

When you design a control experiment, the first thing you need to sort out is Measurement, what exactly you want to measure, how to measure, do you have the tool to do that? For what have been discussed so far, I think we need to find out if plant will release toxic material, I have no idea how to measure it, maybe I am naive, so I welcome anyone come forth with a valid measurement tools. Without this, we probably have to settle with an observation that can't be explained at this moment, which is very common in Scientific world.

Exactly. The "original quote" only gets some brief descriptions, definitely no measurement or etc. However, the "original quote" presents as a tones that it is the truth already. I believe that is going to consulsion too fast.

There is only an observation and the writer has proposed his believe as a possibility. However, it can be true or not and there are still many possibilities. No conclsion can be make so far.

alder · **發表於 :** 2005-01-12 17:00

果汁先生寫:

alder 寫:

果汁先生寫:

alder 寫:

It is only hypothesis until you get supporting data. such as chemical formula, the mechanism..............

Any counter data please !

You are funny. I believe that only the one who purpose the hypothesis is responsible to prove and provide supporting data.

You are as funny as me.

If someone tells you a matter of fact, and it turns out that you do not agree with it. So in the first instant there is something in your mind to support your saying. Right?

I want that(something) in your mind. Thanks.

Where is the fact? I only see descriptions, imaginations, possibilities and hypothesis.

alder · **發表於 :** 2005-01-12 17:04

Kelvin6666 寫:

這種物競天爭的方法, 不是每種植物都會用, 各所釋放的化學物質也不一定每一種植物都會受到影響。
記得看過書本有講過水草競爭的現象, 不記得是最完美水草水族箱一書 or 觀賞魚大百科其中一期。目前書本不齊全, 只可盡量找找。

In "最完美水草水族箱", I read this in its "English Version". The book writer said that they are still studying and researching on that. Probably, there may be already some papers on this after this severl years.

alder · **發表於 :** 2005-01-12 17:14

I read two related observations when I search on this topic. Both of them are still on the research list, no conclusion so far.

1) Most water plants seems need to sleep as well. They discoverd that most plant can only performs photosynthesis at most 8 to 10 hours per 24 hours. They just stop giving oxygen out eventhough you keep giving them light, co2, etc. I believe it is why we get green water for too long lighting.

2) Suddenly rise/drop in tempature can increase the photosynthesis rate dramitically in a short period of time for some water plants and some plants on lands.

alder · **發表於 :** 2005-01-12 17:19

I just read one interesting fact is that Banana may release Toxin to soil that harm most plants even banana themself. That is why banana farmers need to burn the field and let the field rest periodically. It seems to be a proven one.

Sorry that it may be off-topic.

果汁先生 · **發表於 :** 2005-01-12 20:09

Everyone of you and alder, forgive me please, I'm chatting beyond the topic.

If I talk to you face to face, and you demand for the supporting figure for the reality, I'll querry if you believe me or not, and then I request you to present your stand point.

This is simple logic! Get ready with the answer for the subsequent question. You fail to do so.

Actually I know nothing about photosynthesis, hypothesis.............etc. but I strongly believe in the existance of competition. Is it fair/appropriate to say "I do not believe in that just because I have never seen it before???"

There is nothing -VE, this is discussion.

mang · **註冊時間:** 2004-10-18 01:32 **文章:** 198

brothers,

this topic is very discussion..

Although it's no proved and result but we have obtained more points and knowledge to improve our tank setting !

Kelvin6666 · **發表於 :** 2005-01-13 11:43

It's good we want to be logical and scientific. But please bear in mind while we haven't come across the topic before, or any research papers and publications doesn't mean that "it is no prove and result". There are actually lots of papers outside.

Just typed some words in google and was lead to the following papers. These links should be useful if you folks like to read something about Allelopathy.

http://www.tropica.dk/article.asp?type= ... tic&id=531

http://www.britannica.com/ebi/article?tocId=206639

http://csip.cornell.edu/Projects/CEIRP/ ... opathy.pdf

p.s.
Alder, I think you are right on the book's name. And there is only few papers on Competition among aqua plants. Most papers are on terrestrial plants and agricultural products. Thx.

alder · **發表於 :** 2005-01-13 16:12

Kelvin6666 寫:

It's good we want to be logical and scientific. But please bear in mind while we haven't come across the topic before, or any research papers and publications doesn't mean that "it is no prove and result". There are actually lots of papers outside.

Just typed some words in google and was lead to the following papers. These links should be useful if you folks like to read something about Allelopathy.

http://www.tropica.dk/article.asp?type= ... tic&id=531

http://www.britannica.com/ebi/article?tocId=206639

http://csip.cornell.edu/Projects/CEIRP/ ... opathy.pdf

p.s.
Alder, I think you are right on the book's name. And there is only few papers on Competition among aqua plants. Most papers are on terrestrial plants and agricultural products. Thx.

Thanks. You help me a lot. I search with the word allelopathy (it is a new word for me) and have learnt a lot more on the topics. Some aquarium suppliers has intensive research on this matters but no useable result up to now.

果汁先生 · **發表於 :** 2005-01-13 21:51

由(女台)至今, 我仍然深信生存競爭是一种天性.

小弟祇有幾個月種水草經驗, 傻下傻下在摸索中, 沒有任何論點. 但留意到植物是有能力競爭求全.
試看看榕樹下有多少植物? 攀蕂類可以在兩三個月內令覆蓋的植物枯掉. 不為人所知的方法相信還有許多,

而放毒是有可能的一種.

mang · **註冊時間:** 2004-10-18 01:32 **文章:** 198

Thanks Kelvin6666 to release this link:

http://www.tropica.dk/article.asp?type= ... tic&id=531 ..so good

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[轉貼]为什么每次换水后水草的光合作用就变的旺盛？

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