水草情迷

小弟心大心细不知用T5HO或HQI定LED射燈養草好 .T5HO用加火牛同三兩個用要換管.HQI又很熱怕危险 ??如果LED射燈可意就無得頂!!但價錢會否很貴???請各高幫幫忙解答

hi v690,

如果是stardard的Flood Light Series(白光)(上圖), 對我來說, 是十分十分十分十分十分十分十分貴!!!
價錢如下:
http://www.aqugrass.com/phpBB2/viewtopi ... 9&start=30
注意stardard的Flood Light Series(白光)是用SF-50TW94 LED, 所以會貴一點, 但Flood Light Series配SF-50TW94 LED又太強了, 光太集中, 或者可以改用低一級的LED (每盞燈會再平一點), 這樣光線能夠分散一點 (但要用多一點燈盆了), 其實, M16可能會比Flood Light Series好, 而且可能會平宜一點呢.

你的缸有多大? 其實如果你的缸越大, 用LED就越化算. 如果小缸, 真係唔好想了.

如果大缸, 去top century可以tailor-make一個燈盆, 千幾左右 (但可能去膠鋪自己做仲平), 再叫佢幫你搭線, 這樣可能會比M16和Flood Light Series平!

老實說, LED用在草缸是很新的概念, 如果你有心用, 又唔想浪費金錢, 自己真的要很小心計算!! 而且我也不能保證什麼, 要take risk!

ps.
- 其實, 如果你想用LED的話, 你計清楚要用那頂LED, 再去問價, 因為不同的LED, 上落很大 (可以係幾倍difference).
- 真巧, 我正想去bargain, 如果成功的話, 就想買一隻MR16配SF-50TW94-A LED試用在一個超迷你缸. HEHE...不過連缸和濾水器還未挑呢.
- 我未用過HQI和T5HO, 但前輩說20"高以上的缸便要用HQI. 但我自己成日覺得HQI不是終極理想之選, 可能我個人比較環保, 很反對無理浪費能源, HQI要用的Watt數往往比別的多, 因為HQI的能源都變成"熱能", 而這個熱能, 又產生很多side-effect, 又要用其他能源去解決問題, 沒完沒了. 其實, 還要看看你想養什麼草, 如果陰性草, 我想用不著HQI吧~

LED have a very narrow band, peak in very few frequencies and emit almost no light in other frequencies, hence not quite suitable as the primary light source for a planted aquarium.

hi macbrush,

yes, few LEDs are in narrow view angle but ONLY A FEW OF IT!
do u know there are some kind of LEDs in 180 degree view angle. it is high technology in the world right now.
and, LED have many different kind of luminous intensity as well. some of them are as powerful as unbelieveable.

what do u mean of "peak" and "frequency"?
from my knowledge in school, "peak" should be related to "current" and "frequency" should be related to "emitting color". it should not related to luminous intensity.
1. AC and DC can also use in LED
2. there are many various emitting color in LED, much more than FL tube. hence, it should be no problem on "peak" and "frequency".

have u read it be4? about osram LED(621KB):
http://www.osram.com.tw/pdf/ch_pdf/LED_ ... ghting.pdf
it used as common interior light souce. they use powerful grade of luminous intensity LED one.
the only disadvantage of LED is tooooooooooooooo expensive for aquarium (may be others, too). however, it can save other energy from heat lost. (save other money as well)

do u know NASA try to use LED for space planting now?
have u ever read it be4?
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology ... 10926.html

do know that there are many hiking people use LED torch to instead of mudlight torch?
but they commonly use Japan's or USA's LED.

it gives evidence of using on planted aquarium potentially. it depends on choosing which model of LEDs(cos' they are quite different from the LED series). we should study very well be4 using it. otherwise, it wastes our money on LED. a powerful LED is new technology in coming future.

anyways, it is a new topic on fresh-water aquarium. let's try if u are insterested.

ps.
- although the most powerful LEDs are in narrow view angle, u are not only use one or a few LEDs in a huge tank. it should be cloud and mass number of LEDssssssssss. and other external mobile fittings can be used for rotating the light source. therefore, what's the problem of the narrow angle?
- so many ppl said HQI/PL/FL's spectrum is not suituable for planting but why u guy use it? no artificial light source can replace sunlight (cos' lack of UV). however, what we can do is.................... let plant undergo a well photosynthesis only!

Winz兄:小弟魚缸24寸長22寸高18寸濶,請問如LED.M16用多少個才射到底?及養草用籃.綠.白邊隻好或兩隻色配合用?同LED.M16有無UV及養草所要原素 ?:j Winz兄如用LED.M16大約要幾錢一套?及要幾多套是否要加火牛?如要加火牛可否一隻 火牛幾個M16一起用 Winz兄請用中文回覆‧因小弟英文麻麻太深誤明 謝謝Winz兄及各路高手

Great article Winz!!!!
I was working in semiconductor field, your information was very good!!
Also, I know that NASA was trying to use LED for plant in Space.
Cos, it use less engry & emitt less heat (compare with light bulb).
For the LED going, it was trying to beat down our home florusen lamp. LED already beat down light bulb (LED torch).

LED also going to replace the head light of cars. You can see all the new Benz & BMW start to use large amount of LED on their cars. Such as Left & right signal light, break light & backwards light.
Also our KMB bus . New buses start to use LED for signal & break light too !!!

As I know, The white LED only make from super bright blue LED in the pass.
But a new technology from japan was start to have a real white LED instead of blue modify LED.

Ha Ha Ha I forgot this is a aqurium web, sorry sorry .

Maybe that's my English... Let me try again; if you do some research on LED, their colour spectrum is very narrow, and only peak in very few frequencies. This make it very bad for being primary light source for aquarium plants.

Do a search on Google or the krib or APD, this is not a new topic, its been discussed for many years and tried out many times. Up to now, the result is unsatisfactory due to LED's colour spectrum which limits on very few narrow bands.

BTW, BAND means a specific frequency range, it can be light, sound, radiation... etc.

winz兄,你真係好頂癮,乜你都識,我好鍾意睇你d post,雖然你唔係好專業,最起碼你自己所知既會盡量去分享比大家,多謝,因為小弟都好興趣搵一種最適合水草既人造光源..
記得之前睇過日本風情畫~~佢有講用led黎種生菜,d菜好健康...佢原理係用一條種植槽,裡面係水(唔知有冇其他養份),有d窿窿係條槽,d窿就係要黎插生菜,條槽會成條都捲入去一個無光既機械不斷咁自轉,裡面唯一既光源係紅色既led...佢仲話呢個方法植物生長得好快,而且成品都好大棵
請問如果要試係水草用既話..唔知係咪都係應該用紅光呢?
人地用紅光話係經過研究係最適合,但水草又一樣嗎?@@

hi v690,
唔好意思, 我其實唔識打中文(好好好好好慢), 貪方便, 就打了英文...對不起.

v690, 我建議你唔好用住, 等我試左個超迷你缸先, 我估你個缸最少要用$2k-3k. 如果有心用, 我覺得唔好用MR16, 一排LED燈盆仲好.
你可曾看過這post? (認真看清楚, 唔好睇d唔睇d)
http://www.aqugrass.com/phpBB2/viewtopi ... sc&start=0
我當初為左我的13L水想左好耐, 跟據Top Century給我們的spec.上, 以白光為例, 我應為用SF-50TW94-A最係最好的 (或用SF-50TW94, 但要方密d, 這方法一定強過SF-50TW94-A), 但我不知道這個方向有沒有錯誤.
如果沒有錯的話, 試試用比例, 好rough計一計:


記得自己幫我的25"缸計過, 70L水, 最少用60隻MR16配SF-50TW94-A, 由於你的缸幾高, 可能用SF-50TW94以上的級數的LED.

要知道, 一般的MR16(HK)不是用SF-50TW94, 所以要order, 但我不是十分清楚, 而且, 他們是用台灣的LED, 比起美國和日本的, 都次一級, 怎致幾級, 而外國人試的, 都是美國級的. 你明白我的意思嗎? 這等如你去鴨記是但買枝大陸不知明T5和philips T5一樣. 所以要take risk, 如果有錢的, 當然唔怕冒這個險, 但...對於我...沒有辦法了.

很多隻MR16係可以用一隻火牛連接的 (philips 的電子火牛也可以用), 至於幾多隻MR16連接幾多隻火牛, 我真的不懂, 總之, Top Century話, 你當一般石英燈接駁. @@

其實, 我們也幸運, 有spec (暫不用想, spec 的準確性), 外國一般家庭用家, 為了Luminous要煩惱, 因為他們根本不知道正確的Luminous intensity... 事實上我們以有一個好的開始了.

至於植物所雖的光譜, 是根據 wavelenght (nm) / frequency (我不懂表達)
葉

雖然綠素-a 和 葉綠素-b 係用唔同的光, 但大致都係280nm, 420nm, 680nm的光, 即UV-A, 藍光, 紅光. 而UV-A是主要, 紅光是最次要(大約解釋)... 青綠色, 係植物最不雖要的.

但跟據ledgrowlights.com他們建議用紅光為主, 紅:藍= 10:1
我想是因為綠素-a 和 葉綠素-b主導不同功能作怪 (我不能太detail地告訴你, 因為我study緊一本好深的水草書, 好些東西也一知半解), 紅有利生長吧?!!

有UV-A的LED的, 但其他的LED, 係冇UV (因為LED本身的 frequency窄.)


hi s3040,
好多謝你的information, 你提醒了我一樣野, 我真係唔知TOP CENTURY隻超白光LED是否紅藍綠三色, 但我記得, TOP CENTURY解釋過點解超白光LED會貴D, "因為mix左mug mug color" wor.
好! 如果今個星期唔落雨, 我再走一趟!
謝謝!


hi Macbrush,

或者幾年前的新topic對你來說是很舊, 但對我來說, 沒有結論的topic, 就是新topic, 也是有potential 的topic, 會有很多新的論點發掘出來喔.

我想你看的那些post比較舊了, 科技日新月異, LED迎年來的發展真係好快, 你gum快下定論, 請原諒的坦白...你是否有點故步自封呢?

冇錯, LED本身的frequency係窄, 但唔同的light source的 LED 可以加起, 成為一張LED板, 再用mobile的fixing detail就可以做混色了, 其實, 這個concept係從Top Century的混色系列想出來 (我想, 這和植物管混色concept相近)
http://www.tcled.com/Video/Bulb.rm
我就唔知個detial可以點造, product design的問題, 總有辦法解決. 我只係膽心魚魚會好in tense.
有時唔好比一樣困難困死自己, 有一點希望也不用放棄, 除非, 你冇興趣la.

BTW la, LED frequency窄, 已經改善緊了, discovery science channel 都好好睇ga.


hi Rei,
hehe...我八卦ma...天生八婆格, 冇計.
其實我很喜歡分享, 有分享才有進步, 也能知道自己的不足.

係呀係呀, 我都係睇過日本風情畫才search LED的資料, 點知外國d顛佬真係已經動手動腳la wor, 這才令到我心"旭旭"...
還記得日本風情畫裡, 主要是用紅光的, 運輸帶不停轉動, 循環, 希望植物achieve到不同的light souce和angle. 真係好正... 不過, 好記得(如果冇記錯的話)他們用紅光, 係因為紅光可以加快植物生長, 蔬菜便可以快速堆出市場了(雖然我不贊同這人工法).hehe...試想想, 你想唔想你的草快速生長?? 真係 "剪" 到...傻!

Winz兄:我打過電話去TOP CENTURY問最光15粒LED一個M16要幾錢?是$160一個诤燈沒有燈座及火牛.如用電子火牛加起要$250-$300 !因為用3隻M16要成$600起碼 !!現時我想都是加多支光管會好D !希望Winz兄試左個超迷你缸成功 .你的經驗做福養草所有人 Winz兄THX

我之前問過TOP CENTURY,冇記錯佢地隻白Led係用籃Led加黃色螢光粉做成,
我係網上search過而家衹有日本同台灣合資的豐田Led廠是首間做到三基色Led,
真係唔好睇小Led,因為佢而家做價太高所以普及唔到,一旦技術提高價架回落,佢有機會代替而家照明系統

v690兄:如果你用3粒M16買個Super 1200ma細火牛都夠用.
$100有找,唔使買個咁牛電子牛

zeuslaw兄:我今天已買了CA牌PL20寸22W光管$150,加套裝缸双光管15Wx2有成52W其中換一支新買德國sera超光管15W成$85.遲些換多一支希望可以嗱; 如常換超光管的話都幾赤o架 .真想LED怏D成熟普及化同平D就好.不用常換光管同環保 及多謝各路高手幫忙小弟學到很多嘢;

hi v690,
其實上次個價, 係老闆親自比左special offer給我, 我總覺得個salse唔話得事.
請問你問的MR16是用那隻model的LED? 因為唔同的LED, 個價上落很大!
oops, mug你gum快手ar? 你種陰性草? 如果陽性草...我怕不足夠光...@@...

hi zeuslaw,
好多謝你的資料, 很有用喔!
是否這個?
http://www.toyoda-gosei.com/products/opto/01.html
中文:
http://www.twinhill.com.tw/news/c02.htm

hi all,
老實說, 近個月我忙緊做其他野, 加上因為早前很氣餒, 好像做獨腳戲, 自問自答, 好像也沒有有興趣之仕, 所以賴了LED research, 現在大家的幫助又給了我力量. 如果還什麼資料, 敬請提供. 因為, 我真係好外行, reseach時很苦才明白一些些東西, 謝謝各位!

Winz姐:
咁又難怪冇乜反應,因Led用係草缸真係比較新常試,實情效用同金錢已經令好多人卻步,哈...所以大家都好需要一個開荒牛
係呢!而家你個試驗缸情況點呀？個缸幾大同用幾多Led?可唔可以Post張相上黎睇下？其實我有兩個鯛缸都用緊Led 3個月,不過我係用紅同籃Led,種的係鐵皇冠,幾健康仲生得好快下,都未發現有咩問題
v690兄:
你個缸減埋泥成120升水,得53w陽性草一定種唔起,
鴨記有套PL36W總長22吋三基色賣$55,(有開關制)